I slept with my phone by my ear. The rumblings were loud late Friday night. I knew a deal could do down. It was 5:43 a.m. when I got a text: Wake up. It happened. Khalil Mack is a Chicago Bear. More importantly to you, Mr. Mack is now a former Oakland Raider. I know,
Bill, I think a lot of us are in the same state – basically all over the place.
Key to remember the decision to hold us up as a cheap and joke team is Gruden’s – I’ll never forget he chose not to engage with a player je described ad the teams best, days before shipping him out – whatever happens next.
Waiting to see the full details of the trade – if the details are down to Gruden, I wouldn’t be surprised if the two first rounders turn out to be Kevin White & Brian Urlacher rather than picks… is Gruden about to change the team name to Traders?
What a possee of a day….
Pisser of a day – even spell check working to piss me off!
If all the Raiders got for Mack are two 1st round picks, that seems like terrible value for the Raiders. Like you said Bill, the whole reason a team wants to get high draft picks is in the hope to get lucky and hit the jackpot. The Raiders hit three 7s when they drafted Mack. On the other hand, looking at the deal Aaron Donald got, I can see why the Raiders didn’t want to tie up all that money. If there was ever a player to break the bank for, it’s Mack. But Gruden and his staff must really like their roster if they were willing to trade Mack. I’m shocked, although not really. So much of this is Gruden making sure there’s absolutely no doubt about who’s in charge. And what an opportunity for the youngsters on the team. Time will tell.
Beyond disappointed with the news today. I’ve been a fan since I was five years old when I saw Marcus Allen running against the Chiefs on tv in the middle of the country. Based on my location, I should have been a Chiefs or Broncos fan, but I’ve always been with the Raiders. I was devastated when they let Marcus leave (I was too young to truly understood a feud between Al Davis and him), again when they traded Gruden, again when they let Woodson leave, and disappointed with numerous decisions over the years. I’ll always be a Raiders fan, but days like today are really tough to stomach.
First, I lost listening to Greg Papa every week.
Now, Khalil Mack is gone.
I just…don’t know.
It’s disappointing, no doubt.
However, Mack was apparently seeking $25M annually, which is QB money.
Can someone explain the math if the Raiders had 2 $25M players on the roster, and how they could be competitive in the long term?
WTF did we Do Bill. Did we get an offer that we couldn’t refuse ? I hate this deal but lets move on and win. We better get Earl Thomas
Bill please give us a Raider bites podcast. Would love to hear your raw emotion anout this trade.
Employee’s don’t get to dictate their salaries unless they are prepared to be let go. Mack was/is a gem but last time I checked Mack never won a game single handedly. Raiders will be fine.
He did win a game single-handedly. Strip sack against Carolina.
And a pick-six in that game.
If this is just about ego, Gruden has lost all my respect.
If Mack felt disrespected, maybe Gruden feels the same way. Gruden wanted Mack in, Mack refused.
If Gruden sees this as a way to be able to sign other players needed for years to come, I get it.
I don’t like it though. I don’t have to.
Yes, Mark does have the money and the cap can be massaged.
But, again, if this is about our Raiders having long term health and the availability to sign multiple players with those dollars, its tough but necessary I guess.
I don’t know if getting rid of one of the best players in the league is the way to go.
So much for Carr trying to get a deal so Mack and Cooper could be re-signed.
I will no longer fault a player for wanting all the money he can get, that’s for sure.
Two firsts is not enough.
I would have tried to get the 2 1st rounders, 2 2nd rounders and MLB R. Smith. That would be my starting place.
Unreasonable? Maybe. But not for a once in a generation player?
This is an enormous deal. The Raiders should get far more than 2 1st round picks.
Unless those first round picks end up being all pro players from day one, our Raiders are getting screwed.
Why did they have to make this move now? We had him for. This year under contract. Next year franchise.???
If Pats did this, everyone would be saying “how brilliant”
Belichick traded Lawyer Malloy, Pro Bowl LB Jamie Collins, and 2 years ago, Chandler Jones (who up to that time, had 30 sacks in 3 years). Jones wanted the money, Belichick sent him packing.
Gruden likes how the Patriots operate. Doesn’t surprise me.
Belichick trades players who are just past their prime for draft picks. The Raiders (i.e. Gruden) trades draft picks for players just past their prime. The way the Raiders have been drafting lately those two first rounders are going to turn into another Gareon Conley and Tank Carradine. You don’t just give up the best defensive player in football in his prime for lottery tickets. Sign the man to a record contract then trade him in 2-3 years right when his production is about to decline.
I think this was about ego as much as money. Gruden wasn’t going to let his first hold out be the model for the future. It was like a slow moving car crash that, in retrospect, everyone could see happening.
I’m upset. I’ve been a Raider’s fan since 1972. There have been a few fandom threatening Raider moves in that time; trading Stabler, freezing out Marcus Allen, trading Gruden, but this is right there. I feel sick.
I never seem to be amazed at my own naïveté when it comes to professional sports. They are corporations and they do what corporations do.
Right or wrong this will be Gruden’s legacy! Look back to the trade of Gruden to Tampa- we got zip out of that, and that deal garnered the Raiders more than it looks like this one is going to.
I support the decision to trade Mack. If Mack wanted $25M annually, as reported, that’s too much.
This is a QB driven league. The die was cast when McKenzie paid Carr last year. You can’t have two players making 30-40% of the cap and expect to retain and sign talent around them. You can try.. but good luck.
Gruden is all -in on Carr and building around him.Then building a defensive with veterans with a mix of young talent from this year’s draft and next years. If Carr cannot perform up the contract, this deal falls apart.
I cant think of a single Raiders fan that is happy with this outcome. It remains to be seen if Gruden can put together a quality draft, no matter how many picks he has. And Mack is the generational type player you pray for after so many draft misses. From my understanding the Raiders had adequate salary cap space to not overly strap themselves had they signed him.
There is no comparison between Mack and Cooper . Mack is a game changer , Cooper is a dime a dozen talent . If it’s even a thought to dump Mack to afford Cooper – that is insanity .
Gruden has a bullseye on him now. Not sure why Gruden seemed to have a personal grudge towards Mack from the day he signed on as coach. You don’t trade franchise players for lottery tickets ever. This trade significantly weakens the Raiders this season and for potentially years to come. I love how they talk about the increased cap room they will have now that Mack is gone. Great!! They can spend it on a bunch more 30+ year old hasbeens like they did this past offseason.
Message to all Raiders players. If you are a franchise player and it’s time to get paid…forget it. Good luck getting good players to sign there now. And while New England seems to get away with it, they have Bill Bellichik and promises of Suoer Bowls to entice. There ain’t no Super Bowls coming to the Raiders and they have a less intelligent loudmouth in charge.
Have the terms of the trade been revealed yet? Everybody saying 2 x 1st Rounders but early reports also mentioned at least one player (unnamed) as well…. have I missed something or am I just waiting for further news to really put the cherry on the cake?
It was a little bit of WTF earlier. It’s probably safe to say we shouldn’t have been surprised that it could end this way. A lot to digest and see what the Raiders will get in return. The pair of #1’s was the entry ticket. Are there are any quality, impactful now, Bears players or will it be more draft picks to fill out the deal? TBD
FFS! We threw in a second rounder in 2020 as well? Was really cheap trading Mack for 2 No1s but this is ridiculous – surprised we didn’t go for the Leprechaun’s pot of gold, some magic beans and a block of unicorn stables….
The Lion let Suh go after they paid Stafford. The Dolphins did nothing during the Suh era. Now the Raiders let Mack go after they paid Carr. I suspect that Mack will put up good individual numbers, but the Bears will be mediocre, at best. Only QBs merit $20+ million contracts. The Rams paid Donald because Goff is on his rookie contact–in two years, the Rams will have to slash and burn to keep Goff if he becomes elite. We’ll miss you, Khalil, but enjoy losing a lot of 17-9 games in the NFC.
I hate this as I have two Mack jerseys, but I think you’re pretty much on point. The size of the Aaron Donald deal sealed this.
In 2 years Aaron Donald will be 29, right about the time that production slips. At that point they can ship Donald out for two 1st round draft picks, sign Goff to a massive deal, and still have the flexibility to get quality players while having Donald for the best years of his career. The Raiders should have done the same thing with Mack, even if it meant they’d be strapped for cash for a couple of years.
I feel for all the parties to the negotiations. Excruciating pressure cooker all the way around.
One day, in retrospect, Raider management might prove to be terribly wrong. But, unfortunately for them, it will be harder to one day see, in retrospect, that the were kinda, sorta, probably right.
I generally try to support people who make horribly difficult decisions that they have to live or die with, and so it is with this one. I can see the logic. Actually, I can see it pretty clearly. But, it really, really was a gut kick.
I agree with a lot of comments today made by some people I often disagree with, so that might be saying something. LOL.
The cap is a hell of a thing, whether people want to blow it off as irrelevant or not. The cap is absolutely unforgiving and there is no cheap or easy way out – IF you look at the cap over the long haul. Any gimmick or fix now and you pay for it later. This situation came about because, regardless of a lot of whiffs, the Raiders drafted a handful of REALLY good players at about the same time. And, they signed a trio of REALLY good offensive line FA’s … all at about the same time.
In the end, I don’t think there was any other way out, if the medium-long term success of the team is the objective.
Well … maybe there was another alternative: Mack could have played for the amount he agreed to and not hung everyone out to dry by reneging on his contract.
Sure, he played over the top of his contract. But, would he have written a check back to the Raiders if he had played “under” his contract? Was Mack being a bully? He certainly turned out to be a HOF level player. His is a violent occupation when your future could disappear in one hit. But that was a given when he signed up. Why does that give him the right to blow off his contract? How many HOF players were underpaid at some point in their career (and maybe overpaid in other parts), but played out the contracts that they signed? A contract is simply a man’s words written down. Mack is supposed to be a “good guy”. His teammates don’t get to simply ignore THEIR contracts. But, he did.
FWIW, my breakdown of the logic:
(1) I don’t see how a team can believe that paying two players 1/3 of the salary cap and be a perennial top 4 team. It could work for a while, but it would be risky, and would eventually be a salary cap mess … and a losing or marginal team because of it.
(2) The only way I can see how paying that much to a defender could really enhance the probability of team success is if a team has a great QB that is on a cheap rookie contract for several years. Like Chicago. After the QB comes up for a raise, however, they still get into cap hell and have to make a decision like the Raiders just did. I don’t see Chicago launching themselves into the Super Bowl with this trade. TRUBISKY might lead them to a Super Bowl with a big assist from Mack. But, Mack can’t put them in the Super Bowl. The position of QB simply has an impact on the game that dwarfs every other position. Therefore, the QB occupies a slot in the salary cap straight jacket that reflects their impact on the team success. Now, Chicago’s has to maintain excellence from the top to the bottom of their roster, AND prepare a way to either sign or trade Trubisky in a couple years. For those reasons, I don’t think they helped themselves to become a perennial contender. But, they have a little window to be a winner for a couple years. Not unlike the Rams situation with Donald. They don’t have serious QB money tied up … YET.
(3) To sign Mack with the Raiders, it was particularly difficult that both Carr and Mack would be roughly on the same “contract cycle”. In other words, it might have been more tolerable, had the QB’s big dollar contract been on the down side of the time frame and a promising rookie was coming up behind him. That way, maybe you struggle with a big cap burden for a couple years, then it eases off. But, that was not the case.
(4) It’s true, as has been pointed out, that “CARR BETTER PAN OUT, OR THIS WILL BE A DISASTER”. Well, that’s obvious. But that statement by itself is irrelevant. The relevant question is: If you have to put all your money on the table, do you predict that Carr will … or won’t pan out? If someone put a gun to your head and said “Quickly: predict whether Carr will be pretty damned good, or a terrible bust?” … what do you say? No way you pick “bust”. So, you roll with the premise that he’s going to be a good or great QB. No other way to roll.
(5) Logic is similar for “they can’t possibly get another Mack with a couple more draft picks”. Agreed. It would be like getting hit by lightning twice. But, argument doesn’t carry the day because the trade wasn’t made for “positive” reasons – i.e. I doubt seriously that anyone, including Gruden, would literally equate Mack with 2 (or 4) first round draft picks. The trade wasn’t made to swap Mack for draft picks. The trade was made because it was the lesser evil. Because of the salary cap & because Mack reneged on his word and his signature.
(7) The rookie defensive linemen certainly weren’t a big part of an intentional and aggressive trade. But, it probably took some of the sting out of being stuck with a trade.
(8) It’s hard for me to believe that Gruden was playing head games, or was offended, or Mack was offended … etc. At least not enough to affect the big picture. They both want to win too badly. Even if they were pissed at each other, it would have evaporated quickly, had Mack been signed. Maybe they both played the ego game or chess match poorly on a personal basis. After all, phone lines run both way, and nobody ever kept Mack from coming by the locker room. Regardless, that would have evaporated. Gruden loves winners, and Mack is a winner, and Mack would have loved Gruden had he signed.
(9) Did Mark Davis not have $100 million to put in escrow? Wow … who knows? But, it would not surprise me if it were an issue. Could he have come up with the money via selling all or part of the team, or borrowing (even more)? Ok … say he could have. Does that somehow make a $25 million/year, $100 million guarantee sensible … for a non-QB when you already have a franchise QB salary weighing on the cap … for roughly the same time span as Mack’s deal? No … probably not. You still have all the painful logic and reality of long term cap management staring you in the face.
So, I think when you work through the logic, it MIGHT be wrong … the trade MIGHT have been somehow averted … but the reality is that the logic can’t seriously be faulted, even though it hurts like hell.
Mack was the big winner. He was going to get paid by someone. He managed to escape his contractual obligations to play for the Raiders this year, and the next, and the next. So, when the Raiders fans get pissed at the management, remember that the management had Mack signed up for several years and Mack managed to break his word and his contract. Maybe that’s the only valid criticism of the Raider management: maybe they could have made the guy play for what he agreed to play for.
The Raiders – from management to players, to the fans to the groundskeepers got hammered by an excruciatingly difficult decision. Kudos to management for doing the best they could, and pray for the rookie D Linemen and Carr.
Mack had 14 million reasons to be a Raider he didn’t like any of them it’s all about the money with him. I didn’t think he would be like that I was wrong. Mack cares more about money than teammates or winning. You can’t have two guys making quarterback money and still have a team. You need to be able to resign people like Cooper and your draft picks. That said Mack will be missed. Ken Stabler was my favorite player ever they traded him and I’m still a Raider fan for life Just Win Baby.
At this point words from anyone in the Raider front office, especially Gruden mean zilch to me! The only thing this team can do to quit alienating their fan base is win a championship. I’m no longer listening to anything Gruden says until he delivers a championship. If he cares so much about the Raider fan base like he openly says then quit threatening Raider Nation with good times, stop talking, build a championship caliber defense along with a juggernaut offense you care about so much and bring a championship! His mere presence is no longer enough. Show me the championships in the midst of all this mess you created because your ego wants to show everybody how large and in charge you are.
Raiders thirst for chemistry, hope as a team. Starts from the top to the bottom. And everyone, hopefully one day soon, like when I witnessed back in 1974, will be together in sink, kicking some buts. I know, like Al, from the heaven, Raiders will be back, as they should. Today is just one of those sad days, where we lost one of us, being a Raider. I am ready, as a fan, to move forward. May Raiders have a better days tomorrow. Go Raiders!!! Thanks Bill.
Raiders ship off a future HOFer PLUS a second pick then waste the 80th pick on a guy with a checkered past.
http://youtu.be/9HVejEB5uVk